Re: The New Other Bench Audiophile Thread, astonishing arrogance edition

[Iago]

Six weeks is usually my max for any routine, so I am with you there. I do have a nine-week "max" program that I do for pushing up the 1RM, but I do it rarely.

I will look up the Yate thing and give it a try. One of the reasons why I like finishing with "pump" sets or drop sets is that I reach failure without truly getting a really deep burn into the muscle; in other words, my strength tends to give out and I hit mechanical failure before I hit muscular failure. The drop sets especially help by going deeper into the muscle. The absolute failure thing is a similar idea, and knowing my issues it seems like a great way to get to where I want the muscles to go.

By the way, no need to feel bad about being stronger than I am! Short or not, you are stronger than I will ever be and there is nothing wrong with that.

[Seamaster]

I don't know about that. I was merely commenting on squats that my height (or lack thereof) is a definite advantage. I think your cycling endurance would put me to shame and a 600-pound leg press is nothing to sneeze at.

Incidentally, I did the leg and ab workout today. I have to admit that I was (foolishly) skeptical about this one, as the workout only called for four leg exercises: two for overall leg development and quads and two for hamstring. Didn't seem enough. Of course, it was.

For squats, I used two plates aside, and that felt okay, but I only managed 50 reps. I find I really struggle hitting 60 reps, especially on exercises that require a longer range of motion. Plus, I seem to fall to bit after the first set when only resting 20 seconds in-between. I'm not the type to rest for minutes, but if I'm not doing another exercise that targets another muscle group, I usually rest about a minute between sets. At any rate, with squats, I completed 18 reps the first set, then managed only seven the second set. It went down from there each subsequent set. For leg press, I went fairly light (350 pounds) and that also felt okay, but I struggled toward the end, but was able to hit 60 reps. The next exercise up was stiff-legged deadlifts and I approached this one with caution. I have sciatica and I didn't want to aggravate the situation, so I always take it easy with these kinds of exercises. I loaded 80 pounds on a bar and went for it, nice and slow. There is no way I will ever get in 60 reps in four minutes because I refuse to rush this one. I was mid-40s. For hamstring curl, I again kept it light (150 pounds) and got off to a really good start, hitting 20 reps on my first set. But the 20-second thing caught up with me and my last sets were only three reps apiece. The calf exercises were fine, as were the abs. Overall, a humbling workout! But I'm enjoying it and I'm looking forward to seeing progress as the weeks pass. This was my first week, so I will be able to tackle next week more informed.

[Iago]

It may seem hard to believe after the first week, but you will make progress. I remember the first week of doing the HIIT100s when I was doing the 10 sets of 10 with one minute of rest, and thinking that there was no way in hell that I would get down to a few seconds. But at the end I was doing the same weight with only 10 seconds of rest between sets. Actually, the idea is that you are supposed to do 100 reps with no rest in the last week, but I called bullshit on that one -- I have a hard time believing that anyone could do 100 reps at 50% of their 10RM. Ten seconds of rest was agonizing enough -- but I got through it.

Would Romanian deadlifts be better for your sciatica than the stiff-legged version?

[Seamaster]

I find 100 reps of anything with any weight difficult. One of the other workouts we discussed (the mad scientist one) calls for two sets of 100 reps on Day 1 for three exercises (so six sets total). When doing that, I always end up pausing just a little to get through the 100. To actually to be able to do 100 reps, I'd have to select such a light weight that I'm not sure I'd feel the workout. I usually aim to hit 60 reps, pause a few seconds and then work through the remaining reps, pausing every now and then for five seconds or so.

Romanian deadlifts are a bit better, but they're more for overall lower-back development. Stiff-legged deadlifts target hamstrings, which is why they were selected for the leg workout. Unfortunately, my gym is light on hamstring-specific equipment (I only have access to one hamstring curl machine), so my options are few. I was thinking of doing the exercise with dumbbells next time. Doesn't really change the movement, but offers a little more flexibility and it's easier to lose the weights if I feel a twinge.

[Iago]

No, I know they are not the same thing, but they do target similar areas -- if you are squeezing on the raise, they are awesome for your glutes. Can you do things like stability ball curls, or are they too much of a strain on the back? Can you do things like kettleball swings? I was doing those during the HIIT100s, and let me tell you, ten sets of ten of those with decreasing rest periods was BRUTAL.

[Seamaster]

I can do most of what you're suggesting. I just need to be sure to warm up really well. It is something I have to work around and that is okay. I'm just not sure I will be able to squeeze out 60 reps in the four-minute window.

I actually need to buy a kettleball, as that is something my gym also doesn't have.

[Iago]

My gym does not have any, though I have requested them multiple times. I was able to do the kettleball swings with a plate instead. Since I was doing the 10/10s and needed a pretty light weight, I used a 25lb plate and held it around the edge and through the holes in the plate, essentially making a sort of a handle. And let me tell you, ten sets of ten seemed quite managable with the minute-long rests at the beginning, but at the end as I dropped down to 10 second rests, holy COW were those tough!

Speaking of lack of equipment, since the owner of the Snap owns another facility farther away with a seated calf raise machine, I keep asking her to move it to ours, but to no avail. (She keeps stealing OUR equipment to move up there, so trading back would only be fair!) I struggled with getting around that for awhile, trying things like holding plates on my thighs, when I got an email update from Jim Stoppani with a video showing how to do them using a smith machine. D'oh! I cannot believe that it never occured to me. The only drawbacks are that it takes longer to set up, and when raising heavy weights the pressure from the relatively narrow bar can get a bit painful, even with padding, but it works nonetheless.

On the other hand, the one good thing about our Snap is that she has a total of fourteen 45lb plates at the facility, while her other one has less. When you need to load 600lbs to do sets of six, that is a blessing. I have not tried pushing sets of three in a while; but between those 14 and the smaller plates I should still be able to do it. The day she steal our plates and moves them to the other one, and I will REALLY raise hell!

[Seamaster]

At that point, I'd change gyms.

I don't have access to a proper seated calf-raise machine, either, but I would love to have one. When I was younger, the university gym I went to had such a machine and it was brilliant. I really miss it. Heck, my gym doesn't even have a Smith machine, so any improvising is done with a free Olympic bar. That sucks. I usually end up doing standing calf raises (dumbbell or barbell) or seated calf presses, using the leg press machine.

How long were your 10/10s workouts when first starting out and resting one minute between sets? It seems like it wouldn't take many exercises before the workout is pushing well beyond an hour.

[Iago]

Well, minus a smith machine, you are really screwed. Whenever I ask the owner of the Snap for a seated calf machine, she always says that I can do standing raises or leg press raises. Of course, I do those, thank you very much. The seated raises work like nothing else, so I was glad to learn how to do them on a smith machine. But minus that, you are definitely SOL!

The first week of the HIIT100s took around eighty to ninety minutes. But keep in mind that it was in lieu of any carido; in other words, weights and cardio were combined into one workout. Also, the workout was, well, "working" the muscles in a very different way than a standard lifting session. I also was able to skip any time on the treadmill at the beginning, as there was less need for a warmup. I ended up doing no more than four minutes of targeted dynamic warmup stretches and going straight to it. I generally keep my "normal" lifiting sessions to under an hour, though when you add in warmup time at the beginning, I am used to spending nearly that much time in the gym anyway. So while it seems like it would be too long, it really worked fine. By the end, the workouts are under an hour -- though interestingly, even though they are shorter, they are much, much more tiring!

[Seamaster]

Donkey calf raises also apparently work, but are impossible to do without a partner and look a little, well, gay, to be honest (not that there's anything wrong with that). Regardless, not sure that's something I want to be doing in a gym.

I generally try to get in and out of the gym in an hour, but there are times when longer workouts make sense. I just recall reading somewhere that our growth-producing hormone peaks around 30 minutes into a workout and starts to drop off rapidly after 45 minutes. By an hour, it's gone completely. So I try to stick within those time frames. Of course, if weight loss is a goal, it might make a lot of sense to push the body past that hour.

I'm really enjoying the pump I'm getting from the four-minute workout. This will sound vain and narcissistic, but I can actually see a difference post-workout, especially when I'm changing. But the pump lasts for a while afterwards too. That's kinda cool. And it's hitting areas that have always been difficult for me to grow, such as my traps. That's extra cool.

[Iago]

Like I said, don't dump on the pump! But you are experiencing something similar to what I did with the HIIT100 workouts; it was really amazing how they worked areas that are difficult to work, like calves, traps and forearms. In fact, I think that I saw more visible results on my forearms than anywhere else.

I agree that keeping the main body-building lifting sessions to under an hour is best, especially for the average person, but I also think that doing these kinds of 4-6 week alternative workouts are fine even if they go over that, since they are forcing your body to react differently than it is accustomed to reacting. In theory, when you switch back to a more conventional workout you should find yourself pushing more than you normally would.

I do donkey calf raises at the gym using their dip/pullup station. I can stand on the top shelf and lean forward to brace myself against the back of the machine, and it works pretty well.

[Seamaster]

No dumping going on over here; I'm celebrating the pump.

How do you use weight on the dip-pullup station? Mine is simply a station with counterweights built in to assist people who aren't strong enough to support their own weight in either a pullup or dip situation. I suppose I could strap on a weight belt with chain, like I would when I want to add weight for doing dips, but I'd prefer to have the weight up high and on my traps for doing donkey calf raises -- the chain and weight solution has it around my waist. Not sure how I'd support the weight if my hands were being used to brace myself. Maybe our setups are different or maybe I'm not quite picturing what you're doing. It'd be nice to have another option for calves, which is why I ask.

[Iago]

We have a similar station. Why it works for me is that it has multiple steps up, and I can pick the one that gets me the best distance from the back of the machine for leaning forward. However, I see what you were talking about -- it still would not help for adding weights. I tend to only do donkey calf raises on high rep days, or for supersetting, so the extra weight is not necessary. I mostly do them when supersetting -- toe presses together with donkey calf raises, for instance. When supersetting two exercises on the same body grouping, the donkey calf raises do the job without any extra weight!

I have two more weeks to go with the current routine, then a "free" week when we are on vacation, then I start the tabatas. I just ordered a Gymboss to help with that, as you can set it to go off in alternating 20 second/ten second intervals. I placed the order and got an email fifteen minutes later that they had shipped. Not bad.

http://www.gymboss.com/

[Seamaster]

Is it Stoppani's site that you got the Tabatas workout from? I may check it out. How much is the subscription fee?

[Iago]

It is about $14.00 a month, so it is not necessarily cheap, but since you would not be using his online tools like workout planners you could easily just sign up for the free introductory week and go to town printing off whatever you want. Even just subscribing for a single month would give you plenty of time to explore and print. His earlier ebooks are downloadable, but the newer ones are in an online format that you cannot download. They do, however, allow printing if you want to use up that much paper.

Got my Gym Boss yesterday. That was fast! Two-and-a-half more weeks to Tabatas . . .

[Seamaster]

I'll check out the site. I feel $14 a month is a bit steep, but I really should have a look at the content before making that judgement. That said, I have no problem paying some money for good advice.

[Iago]

It is steep, but like I said, it is not like you have to keep paying. Just print off what you want. All you miss then is newer information.

If you sign up even for the free week, check out the new SS8 -- I am not even sure where to BEGIN describing that one! It combines a ton of different things, including compound versions of supersets (supersetting the same body part, such as bench presses and flyes, with one lower reps and the other higher reps.) Personally, I have never supersetted the samd body part -- only opposing muscle groups. It also uses some elements of tabatas (mixing them in between some of the supersets) and periodization. The idea is again a combined cardio/weight workout to burn fat while adding muscle. It looks like it would hit things even harder. I may consider messing with that down the road, but I do want to give the pure tabatas a chance first so that I can master the concept.


Interesting, by the way, that we hijacked our own "Audiophile" thread for a workout discussion -- but we hijacked the one titled "astonishing arrogance"!

[Seamaster]

Irony at its best.

I've done supersets on the same body part. They work well. I've generally done lower reps on something like bench followed by higher reps (or an attempt at higher reps) with flyes. I have also done flyes first and finished with heavier dumbbell presses. Throw in another set and now you have giant sets. I've usually done these kinds of things to get in a lot of reps in a short time (sometimes time or a lack of is our biggest enemy). I'll check out Stoppani's site. It sounds like he puts twists on old concepts to make them new.

[Iago]

Well, like I said I have never supersetted the same body part, though it is nice to read your confirmation of its "positives." I may give that SS8 a try later on. I will do the tabatas for three or four weeks, then switch back to straight lifting for 4-6 weeks and see what happens after that.

Here is a sample of one day of the SS8:



Workout 1 (Monday)

Exercise Sets/Reps Rest

Bench press 3/9-10 -

superset with

Dumbbell flye 3/12-15 1 min.



Incline dumbbell flye 3/12-15 -

superset with

Incline Dumbbell press 3/9-10 1 min.



Push-ups* 8/20 sec. 10 sec.





Dumbbell shoulder press 3/9-10 -

superset with

Dumbbell lateral raise 3/12-15 1 min.



Bent-over DB lateral raise 3/12-15 -

superset with

Dumbbell upright row 3/9-10 1min.



Kettlebell/Dumbbell swing* 8/20 sec. 10 sec.





Close-grip bench press 2/9-10 -

superset with

Lying triceps extension 2/12-15 1 min.





Triceps pressdown 2/12-15 -

superset with

Overhead cable triceps ext. 2/9-10 1 min.



Dead Landmine* 8/20 sec. 10 sec.

[Seamaster]

Supersets are like any kind of extreme workout. Good in moderation, but you already knew that.

The sample you provided sounds fine. I might move shoulders to another day and add another set to chest, but then I don't know what the overall vision is for the workout. If it's a two-on, one-off set up for the entire body, this might make more sense. I generally aim to work my entire body once per week, as I like to give my muscles time to recuperate and repair. However, it might be worth mixing that up too. Hmmm . . . .

[Iago]

Oh, that is just one day, and needless to say the full workout is far more complicated. Plus, it has progressively reducing rest periods. If you sign up, even for the free week, let me know what you think. Regardless, I am hitting the tabatas next. I was planning on taking next week off from weights while we are in Vegas, and just running outside for cardio all week, but I rethought that since I have been having shin splint issues lately. Those will go away when I switch to biking for cardio during the summer, but the weather so far has not been cooperative, and the extended period of running during the Fall/Winter/Spring has not helped. I know that we are going to be walking a helluva lot of miles while we are down there, so I decided to hit the tabatas for exercise instead to give my shins a break. There is a Snap eight miles from the hotel, so it is not exactly next door, but on the other hand since we get up early anyway, and Vegas will be two hours behind, I will probably be getting up REALLY early and will not have to worry about much competition for equipment, no matter how busy the gym may be.

[Seamaster]

I did check out Stoppani's site, but have yet to sign up, even for the free trial. Anything that requires my credit card info over the free trial period gives me pause, especially when I'm billed if I don't cancel by Day 7. I know it is a business, and he has every right to set those conditions, but it felt like I'd be signing up for penis enlargement pills or something.

I'm still interested, but want to sign up when I have the time to actually explore his site and determine if I'd like to continue my subscription.

I hope you're enjoying Vegas.

[Iago]

Well, we just got here, but fun so far!

I started the Tabatas on Sunday and Monday, then took today off (our flight was at 6:15, so I had to get up at 3:00.) I am going to continue them tomorrow at the Snap that is about eight miles from here. All that I can say is, holy CRAP are those tough! It felt awesome afterwards, though. Exhausted, but awesome.

There is a 24 hour fitness center right next to the hotel, so we went to check it out but it is $50 PER PERSON for one week. The place was huge, too; like nothing I have been to. But I guess that I will be doing the driving instead.

[Seamaster]

I was going through some of my older issues of Muscle and Fitness and came across a Stoppani workout. Ever heard of his 3X2 strength program? It might go by another name on his site, but the basic premise is three workouts per week over six weeks, with the intensity upped in two-week segments. The workouts are centred around the big three movements: squat (Day 1), bench (Day 3) and deadlift (Day 5).

If you don't have access to the workout, I can share the details, but it looks brutal. Of course, completely different from what you're doing with Tabatas, but I'm looking to switch things up to keep my body guessing and to allow it time to heal. Over 12 to 18 weeks, in four- to six-week segments, I'd like to cycle through three workouts focused on:

1. general maintenance (e.g., meat and potatoes workouts)
2. strength and size (e.g., something like this 3x2 workout)
3. fat burning (e.g., the four-minute workout or tabatas)

Not sure if that will be detrimental or counter-productive over the long-term, so I will have to see how my body reacts and adjust accordingly.

[Iago]

I tried looking it up on his site, but did not see it under 3x2. He has a 4x4 workout that is a similar idea spread over four days. But I can check M&F for it as well. But what you are describing sounds like a classic program of his. He usually incorporates some kind of periodization like that.

This morning was my last day of the first week of tabatas. The hardest part the first week is picking the correct weights. If you are too light or too heavy, there is no time to change up once you start the four minute cycle. Since I wanted to make it to the end each time I erred on the light side, but made notes for next week. You CAN go heavy, though; as long as you can finish 20 seconds for the first five reps, then you can stay with that weight and make the goal to hit 20 seconds for all eight reps (rather than make the goal to increase the weight each time.)

[Sponsored content]