Re: Seamaster and Iago's endless rehashing Bond thread

[Iago]

Looks like I missed the link on the last one.


The interesting thing that happened with this one was the delay due to the bankruptcy of MGM. Daniel Craig had been quite vocal about his displeasure at shooting Quantum of Solace without a finished script. The delay before starting production on Skyfall gave them plenty of time to fine-tune the script before shooting, and it shows. Sure, there are still some plot holes and flaws, but by and large the script hits all the right notes.

The worrisome thing with the success of Skyfall is that they will want to rush another film into production quickly too capitalize on the momentum, and that would risk going into production with a half-baked script again. But we shall see.

More interesting stats: Skyfall has now placed #17 on the all-time worldwide grosses chart, and if it does indeed cross $1 billion it will crack the top 12. Looking at overseas grosses only, it is #7, and looking at overseas non-3D titles, it is #3, behind Titanic and Return of the King.

So, perhaps there is a slight chance that they will be antsy to start production on a new one!

[Seamaster]

Just a chance!

I didn't find the script had plot holes so much as it did flaws. As much as I liked Skyfall, I think it could have benefited from some careful editing. The film could probably lose about 10 to 15 minutes from its run time and be all the better for it.

I am pleased that Skyfall is doing well, but I also have to shake my head at some of the titles that make the top-grossing list. Don't get me wrong, Titanic is a good film, but I don't consider it one of the greatest films ever made. That said, I realize that the grosses chart is in no way representative of overall quality. I'm just saying.

[Iago]

I do not think that anyone has ever said that the box office charts signify quality; what they signify instead is popularity, pure and simple. And that is why the monumental box office for Skyfall is so amazing; not because it proves that the movie is any good, but rather it proves that after fifty years and twenty-three films -- a completely unprecedented situation -- Bond is still popular. Globally, more popular than any any of the Twilight movies, or either of the first two Lord of the Rings films, or any of the individual Harry Potter films save for three (and it is now guaranteed to pass two of them, meaning it will end up more popular than any Harry Potter installment other than the last one.) Globally, it is now more popular than any Pixar title except for Toy Story 3, and at this point there is little doubt that it will pass up The Dark Knight as well. And THAT is a particularly interesting way to look at it.

Here is another one: Daniel Craig is now one of the top box-office stars of 2012, based on the one film -- surpassed only by Christian Bale for The Dark Knight Rises and the ensemble cast of The Avengers.. That fact, of course, is much to the delight of the smiling folks at danielcraigisnotbond.com.



Full disclosure, though -- I do absolutely love Titanic, warts and all. So I am perfectly happy with it being one of the top grossing films of all time. In fact, it is an interesting movie on the charts because no other film has made money over the long run like Titanic did; it opened at a relatively meagre $28 million domestically, and then proceeded to gain box office every weekend for the next several weekends. It also ran for many months before it had a single day where it made less than $1 million. I do not think that any other top box office movie will ever have that kind of legs again, or make money in the same way.

[Seamaster]

Yes, I know total gross is merely a representation of popularity and has nothing to do with quality. I should have been clearer in my last post.

I actually loved Titanic the first time I saw it, but I haven't found it a good film to go back to. It just doesn't hold my interest on repeated viewings, which is why I don't consider it a great film. And that is simply personal opinion.

Bond is interesting because the franchise has had its ups and downs from being very popular to almost going extinct. The fact that Bond is doing so well with Skyfall is a testament to that film's team as well as the many others who helped reboot the Bond franchise. Without that reboot and the willingness to start fresh and head in a new direction, Bond would not have the legs it does today. Sure, we are only talking three films. But three more Bronson outings in the light of what was done with Die Another Day and The World Is Not Enough might have did the series in to the point that only die-hard fans would be supportive. The reboot has brought the series to the masses and has found acceptance with the masses.

Perhaps I'm giving the reboot too much credit, but I think the reboot has done a lot for Bond's popularity.

[Iago]

The weird thing about that, and the truly ballsy thing, is that Die Another Day was actually the highest-grossing Bond movie to date at that point. In fact, each Brosnan movie made more money than the previous; his best film, Goldeneye, is actually the lowest grossing of his films -- though that was the case of another succesful reboot, as it made a ton more money than the previous film Licence to Kill (which still stand as one of the lowest-grossing Bond movies to date.) The decision to reboot things after DAD took some guts, since pretty much everyone involved would have expected them to maintain the path that was already so successful. Chalk it up to artistic integrity in a commercial endeavor: Wilson & Broccoli correctly recognized that they really had nowhere to go from the excesses of DAD; after all of the ridiculous elements in that movie, how could they have one-upped things in the next film? The reboot -- or rather, I should say the SUCCESSFUL reboot -- guaranteed the long-term viability of the franchise. And while Brosnan was certainly popular, especially with many hard-core fans, it was a good move to switch to a version of the character that was better suited to the modern era; MUCH better suited, post 9/11. And when they ultimately have to switch actors again, perhaps the zeitgeist will have changed as well, and they will move in a different direction. Who knows? But their willingness to change with the times is the only thing that has kept the series going, something that the danielcraigisnotbond-ers will never recognize. (Foolishly, too, since even looking at the pre-Craig films, the series and Bonds have changed drastically over the decades to better suit the era, so changing the tone with Craig is hardly unprecedented.)

[Iago]

In honor of Skyfall passing the $1 billion mark this weekend (and it STILL has not opened in China yet!) I got my new toy. It is in a million pieces right now, but as soon as I figure out how to put it back together I will post a photo.

[Iago]

And here it is. For the record, the thing is 12' 3" wide by 7' high, so Daniel Craig is actually twice life size. The thing is damned big! (The doorway to the left is a standard-sized door, for reference.) Pictures do not really give an impression of the size -- if you saw it in the theatre, you know what I mean when I say that it is gigantic.

[Iago]

Not sure why it cut off the side of the picture, but you get the idea!

[mrblur]

that gun is mighty small....

[Seamaster]

Too cool. So what's the complete backstory behind you acquiring your toy?

I am almost ashamed to admit that I rewatched and was not all that bothered by Octopussy, which is arguably one of the worst Bonds ever made (save Moonraker, which I absolutely abhor). And I'm not sure what to make of the Moore-Bronson comparison. I still do not think that Moore made a good Bond, but I'm not sure Bronson made any better of a Bond. I tried to imagine Bronson doing some of the same scenes and the first thing I could think of was Bronson's pursed lips as he'd go to block a kick or throw a punch. I also tried to imagine a younger Moore in the Bronson-era pics. My conclusion is that they were both pretty bad Bonds.

[Iago]

Oh, never fear, I was not saying that I revised my opinion about Moore being a terrible Bond; I just meant that I have revised my list to consider Brosnan even worse -- temporarily, at least. But I would not feel too defensive about not being bothered by Octopussy; I actually consider that film to be one of Moore's best efforts. It suffers from a split personality; much of the film is fairly serious in tone, recalllng movies like From Russia with Love. Unfortunately, that ends up being undercut by far, far too much silliness. That is another film that could be great with a creative fan edit that elimitated the dumber moments and left the basic plot and intrigue intact.


That standee was up at the local theater. I rarely go there, as I prefer to see movies in the Twin Cities on better screens instead, but I do have to admit that the new owners have definitely improved things, installing all new digital projecters and sound systems (we are talking about a city of approximately 2000 people, so that kind of upgrade is not as simple as it would be for a theatre in a larger community.) But I met my father up there to watch a different movie (we already saw Skyfall on the Marcus Ultrascreen in the Twin Cities) and as we were walking past the standee, I commented on how that would look awesome outside my home theatre room. My dad said that he had gotten to know the new manager pretty well and would ask him if I could have it. I told him that it could not hurt to ask, but that there is no way that they would let me have it -- I would have been happy with one of the posters!

A couple of days later, Dad called and said that he had just talked to the manager and I could have it when they were done with it. I never really expected that, and almost regretted asking when I thought about how to get it home. So last Sunday the manager called my Dad and said that they took it down, so I borrowed a pickup truck and met my Dad up there, the whole time trying to figure out how I could take it apart to get it into the truck. But by the time that I got there, the manager and his staff had already taken it apart. That was both a blessing and a curse; as much as I appreciated them making the extra effort (for something that they were just giving away!) it meant that I had no chance to see how it was constructed -- I just got a pile of parts.

Putting it together was a challenge -- fortunately, I have put together hundreds of those kinds of things before, but while the front of it was pretty simple to figure out, the supporting structure behind it was much, much harder. I looked online for directions, to no avail, but I did download some pictures of the frontside as a reference. The breakthrough was finding a youtube video showing brief time-lapse footage of its construction -- the video itself was useless, but I was able to freeze one single frame that fairly clearly showed the general layout of the supporting structures, and I could deduce the rest. It still took me a few hours to get it back together! The thing is big enough and relatively heavy enough that much of it is held together with bolts and wingnuts, rather than just the cardboard tabs.


As an aside: this is an example of the issues with the previous managment and ownership of that theatre:

http://consumerist.com/2010/02/23/theater-vp-go-f-yourself-here-are-directions-to-another-theater/

http://www.startribune.com/entertainment/movies/85280202.html?refer=y

(The first link contains the unexpurgated version of the email involved; the second link censors it but has more details about what happened afterward.)

[Seamaster]

I can't believe the theatre management would send an email like that. That's incredible. Sure, Sarah's initial email was a bit petty at points, but managers have to rise above that. Truly incredible.

Very cool about how you got the standee, and how you went about putting it back together. Humpty would be proud.

I'm going to suck it up and watch View to a Kill next -- I've been putting that one off. I don't think anything will top Moonraker, but it should come close.

[Iago]

I think that I mentioned that even A View to A Kill did not bother me as much as Moonraker did; there are still a few enjoyable elements to it. Very few, I admit, but I still feel that Moonraker is largely irredeemable. At a minimum, crank the sound and enjoy Barry's inventive score.

I did finish Quantum of Solace, so I have officially retired the entire set. Given the success of Skyfall, they have moved its release date up so I will be able to watch that again relatively quickly after finishing the others. Did you get a chance to watch the opening titles compilation? That is the best way to judge them and decide which ones are best.

[Seamaster]

I have not done the opening titles compilation. I'm getting there.

I'm also having to rethink my favourite Bond cars. Of course, Aston Martin is at top for me. But there is a bit of dueling going on between Lotus, Toyota, Ford and others.

[Iago]

I have ALWAYS had a soft spot for the Esprit. I actually prefer the one in For Your Eyes Only, since it lacks the gadgets from The Spy Who Loved Me (save for the "security system," which was a genuinely amusing joke, even if it meant no more Lotus for the rest of the film.) The BMWs actually disappointed me a bit, and I do love BMWs, but the car(s) in the Brosnan films (Z3? I cannot remember,) while impressive feats of engineering, just do nothing for me visually. (By the way, I have a friend who bought a used Z3 in excellent condition, and promptly ran it into a curb while cornering. Bit too much power for him, presumably tied to a bit of oversteer as well.)

No love for the AMC in The Man with the Golden Gun?

[ethelred]

I'm impressed with the fact the you have a large-enough place in your house to put the standee.

[Iago]

Oddly enough, you are not the first person to ask that question . . .

Keep in mind that we have no children, and that we finished the basement after we moved in, pretty much to our specifications. Given the layout of a split-level house like ours, practically we were able to add two rooms, which left ample open space between them. The entrance to the HT room is the door just to the left of the standee, and the bookshelves visible in the right side of the full picture actually extend 24' along that wall. (Not sure if you can see them, as on my screen these forums cut off the right side of the picture, but jump to the phtobucket address for the picture and they will be visible.) We originally wanted an open space for possible things like a ping pong table, but Eve has gone off that notion, so for the time being I have plenty of room for my toy.

My original plan was to place it along the 12' wall behind it, facing the bookshelves, but that ended up looking odd when you walked down the stairs, as you ended up seeing it from the side. You would have to walk over and stand by the bookhselves to see it properly. I decided it had much more impact if it was the first thing that you saw when you headed down the stairs!

[Seamaster]

I have a soft spot for the AMC, but I do not feel any of the muscle cars from the 70s have screen presence enough to be their own character alongside Bond. The Aston and Lotus cars (and the lovely Toyota in You Only Live Twice), by comparison, appear to achieve that feat. The Mach 1 in Diamonds are Forever is pretty sweet, but that is really Tiffany's car. Incidentally, my former father-in-law has one, but the last I saw it, it wasn't in good condition. The engine and tranny are fine, but the body needs work. I also heard that he converted the roof to a T-roof! -- he ought to be arrested!!! Nevertheless, my favourite Mustang is still the one Tilly drives in Goldfinger. That would be a fine car to own, despite its lackluster performance (I'd want one stock).

The BMWs are a low in the Bonds, and I also love BMWs. Goldeneye features the Z3, which is an underpowered convertible. I believe it only has 140 horsepower. BMW later rectified that with the Z4 and engine upgrades to the Z3, including an M-roadster version. If your friend found the car too powerful, it is likely he had a Z4 or one of the later-year Z3s. Or perhaps it was understeer or icy conditions that found him barreling into a curb.

Tomorrow Never Dies had Bond drive a 700-series. Nice car, but better suited to an executive sales person. Die Another Day puts Bond in a Z8 . . . that is promptly cut in half after about six seconds on screen. Shame.

I rewatched Goldeneye and I'm afraid the race scene at the beginning still bugs me. I love the DB5, but that car would have been over 30 years older that the F355 it races, which is still one of the best handling and quickest accelerating modern Ferraris. Simply put, there is no way it would have even been a race.

I also love the Lotus Esprit from For Your Eyes Only, but it's the turbo model (the bronze one) that floats my boat. I love that model, the wheels, even the colour and ski rack.

[Iago]

Well, you can chalk up the performance of the DB5 in Goldeneye to Bond's superior driving skills! Xenia's skills were of a different sort . . .


Actually, the AMC part was a joke, since I was talking about the Hornet in TMWTGG, not Scaramanga's car! And now that you mention it, the BMW that my friend bought may be an M version. I believe it was a 1998, either way, so it is a later one. And yes, it has significantly more than 140 horsepower! Not sure, but I stole this photo off his Facebook page:

[Seamaster]

Well there is that, I suppose.

Yes, I think that is the M-roadster (based on the M badge to the right of the license plate). If not, it at the very least has the M package (usually involves a suspension upgrade and visual tweaks). I forgot, but what is it you used to drive (a 325i or 328i)?

[Iago]

I do not follow that kind of thing as much as you do, but I am now pretty convinced that his car is an actual M series. I seem to remember him running down the differences with me and why his was better. I must confess that while I was listening, it was not terribly attentively as I did not retain very much!

We had a "lowly" 325i. 1992, I believe. While we had many problems with it and Eve was thoroughly unhappy with how much we spent fixing it, from a sheer driving perspective it is probably my favorite car out of all that we have owned together. Much less horsepower than the '77 Thunderbird I owned prior to our marriage, as that one had a 400 dropped into it, but the BMW handled like a dream. It is also the car in which I drove the fastest that I ever drove, a bite over 130mph (I chickened out before I hit 140.) You may recalll the story, but that was at a particularly low point in my life and I took it out late one night onto a back road and just opened it up. Not recommended on a country road after dark, by the way . . .


Not sure if you care for the count-up, but last weekend Skyfall passed up The Dark Knight to become the 13th all-time worldwide grosser at $1.023 billion. By the end of next weekend it will pass up the next two on the chart (Alice in Wonderland and The Phantom Menace) to hit #11. It needs to get to $1.043 billion to reach #10, Pirates of the Caribbean: On Stranger Tides.) The kicker is that it still does not open in China until later this month, and if it gets any Academy Awards nominations, it will get a surge from that, so it should definitely crack the top 10. It will reach another milestone in the U.S. after next weekend, as now it is guaranteed to cross $300 million.

[Seamaster]

I think I will have to go see it a again, just to help the cause, if only by a little. That is kinda exciting.

Yes, I remember your back-road story. Going over 130 mph is a fair clip. I know because I have also done about 130 mph -- also at a low point in my life. However, I did at early dawn, so I had lots of daylight. Nevertheless, I will never do that again, unless on a closed track. A bit stupid when I think about it.

Didn't realize you had a T-Bird. That's pretty cool.

[Iago]

Well, going over 130mph on a back road in complete darkness, and in deer country to boot, was sigificantly more stupid!

I bought the T-Bird from one of my store managers when I quit at Video Update. I had been driving a company truck and needed something quickly; he needed the money. It was a '77 with an intact vinyl roof, which was a pretty big deal for collectors. It had originally come with the standard small block engine, and he & his brother had put the 400 cubic inch big block into it. When they took it out for a spin, they promptly blew the transmission, which was not designed for that engine. So it had a fairly new transmission, too! They also put straight pipes and glass packs on it, and that sumbitch sounded JUST like the Batmobile in the animated series when it was idling. That rumble at idle is one of the greatest sounds in the entire vehicular world; you can have your Harleys if you like, but I will take that sound instead! (The car that Michael Pare drove in Streets of Fire also had that exact same rumble; I suspect that the sound designers of the Batman animated series used a "stock" sound effect.)

For raw power, that one was the tops, but needless to say the BMW handled much better. Though frankly, I am quite content with the handling of our new Focus; overall, it is probably my favorite of all the cars that we have owned.


The truly amazing thing with Skyfall is that it now seems quite clear it will beat even Thunderball in adjusted grosses -- worldwide, that is; the latter will always be on top for domestic grosses. The only measurement that you can now use to downplay its performance is total tickets sold, though even that has fallen in some countries; in France, it has sold more tickets than any other Bond film. But the tickets-sold metric is really a dicey one when you consider how very different the entertainment world was back then; no cable, satellite, home video, internet, etc., made for a verry different kind of theatrical market.

[Seamaster]

I have seen deer, moose and even bear on the road I was barrelling down. Nevertheless, at those speeds, I don't think it would have mattered. The end result would have been equally as messy.

Regarding the T-bird: The only question I have now is why do you not still have the T-bird?!

I can't comment firsthand about the Focus, but I've heard it handles well. As part of Ford's one vision (or whatever), the Focus was the first car Ford chose to market globally. In other words, the Focus we get here is the same Focus (allowing for minor adjustments and right- versus left-hand drive) we'd drive in Europe. So the car is not softened for the North American market like it might have been years ago. I believe Ford did the same thing with the new Fusion (or baby Aston as I like to call it. If only it came with a stick shift.)

Yes, the world has changed and will continue to do so.

[Iago]

Well, as a happy modern Ford owner, I would have to admit that I can change along with the world! I have not liked much that Ford has done for many, many years. Now, speaking of Astons, I lust after a 2013 Fusion . . .

The global strategy was one of the big selling points with me. I was a bit concerned that it was a new model line and had not really been road tested yet, but a regular at the gym (who works at a Chevy dealer!) pointed out to me that it really was NOT a new design, but the introduction of the European model over here. So the design has already been road tested, and we have had no problems with it whatsoever.

I bought the T-Bird after quitting Video Update, and money was tight for a few years. We had a major gas price spike back before I sold it just, which was a bit before Eve and I got married, and I needed something that got double-digit gas mileage. Because of money I could not really afford to hang on to it while buying something else. So, away it went. It was fun, though!

The BMW did ultimately fall victim to a deer, though it was the deer that hit the car while Eve was driving, not the other way around. It shattered the front windshield & passenger window, and also crumpled the passenger door panel. Eve said that the car barely budged when the deer hit it. The body shop said that he would have to let us know if there was any structural damage, and he called us back later, laughing, and said that once he got the panels off it was steel cage construction underneath. He said she could have gotten hit by a tank and it would not have done structural damage. Well-built cars!

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