The 83's Project Thread

[East]

Well since the weather has gotten nice enough around here (When its not raining that is) To work on the firebird I figured it deserves its own project thread.

My friend who owns a body shop said he would put pans in it this year so I went ahead and ordered them, They arrived this past wensday from classic.



Today was so nice I took it as an opportunity to strip my smelly ratty interior. The trim is actually in nice shape and will be reused. As you can probably tell from the picture the carpet is well past it.

I was hoping to find a small clean area of carpet to use for color matching, From the looks of it that will not be happening as every inch of this carpet is either A. Dry rotted, B. Mildued C. Discolored from the sun or D. Covered in seam sealer / Tar from the previous floor pan quick fix by the PO.


(It actually doesn't smell as bad as it looks) (I took off the other trim touching the floor after the picture was taken.

I did peek under the carpet and although I did see daylight in several areas and rust in some others it really didn't look that bad compared to this 86' that scares the hell out of me.



Which is good because the pans I got are exactly the area that is rusty. The rest of the floor (The area under the back seat surprisingly enough is rust free) (Otherwise it would have to be fabricated)

I actually found out the name of who I believe to be the cars first owner today on an old atm card that was under the console. (Sand witched in between inadequacy potent little tree air fresheners)

At this point the only thing that still has to come out is the drivers seat (which has seized bolts holding it in) Carpet and maybe the dash depending on how much rot I find once I get the carpet out.

This is the first car that I have fixed up to this degree and I am rather enjoying it even 3 years later. I don't mind sanding and grinding the surface rust and having the rot fixed, I just wish that the bolts were not rusted in place, It is a real pita.

[PhotoOtaku]

Was the name on the ATM card Victoria?

[East]

No it was Marc G. and the writing on the card was in french. (Which is consistent with the fact the car was originally sold in Canada) Looking at the brown color scheme on the card it looks like it was made sometime in the early 80's. Still no build sheet...

Why did you know somebody named Victoria that lost there atm card in the early 80's in a brand new trans am?

[PhotoOtaku]

Yup, a friends older sister.

Why did you know somebody named Victoria that lost there atm card in the early 80's in a brand new trans am?

It might have been '82 or '83, black with gold trim. Had the alloy wheels with the covers that looked like bowling balls...?


BTW, I helped with a carpet replacement on an '85 Z28, same color as yours. It was a long time ago, but what I remember being an issue was the quality of the kit we got. It was from JC Whitney (I think), color was very good but the quality of the carpet (the molded areas) was really poor.

[East]

I really have not given much thought as to where I am going to get the carpet from yet (Probably classic industries or year one)

According to the rpo data on compnine (Before they updated the database and messed up all the rpo data) My car was originally equipped with N24 rims, Which look a lot like the turbo cast rims but they did not have caps.



It is still sitting on the AR 39's but I did get new rubber last fall as the old tires were a safety concern of mine.

Heres what it looked like the day I had them mounted last year:


(Given the fact its 28 years old and it got a budget paint job it looks quite good imo)

Not only do they look nice but now the car rides better too. (These are actually the correct size for the car, so that's probably why)

I am also looking to get sub frame connectors installed this year while its in for the floor. I am torn between spohn and s&w. Do you have any suggestions

Pros of the spohns:
Affordable ($200)
Good ground clearance
Highly recommended on TGO

Cons:
Fewer contact points



Pros of the S&W
8 Point contact (Thus more strength and more area to weld them in)
Integrated drive shaft safety loop
Compatible with the s&w torque arm

Cons:
Requires use of the S&W torque arm from what I have read
Expensive (~$650) with there torque arm
Poor ground clearance (Most people claim There is about 3" at the lowest point and that they scrape on everything. I am concerned about clearance pulling in and out of the driveway)

S&W installed:

(taken from http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/suspension-chassis/550165-s-w-subframe-into.html)

Ill probably ask on TGO too once I research my other options (BMR, UMI, TDS, Hawks, Jegs etc.)

Ah what the hell

[East]

Well I got annoyed with not being able to get the drivers seat loose so I just pulled back the edge of the carpet. Its times like this I am glad my bud is handeling cleaning this up and installing the new pans. T tops ftw

[Seamaster]

That looks like quite the project!

Regarding your frame: I'd go with the most rigid and stiffest option possible. You need a good base if you want solid handling. Maybe you can look at getting adjustable shocks and springs to allow you extra space for clearance where you are worried about scraping. Plus, that way you can dial in a softer setting for city driving and a more aggressive setting if you ever choose to take the car to the track.

[Iago]

I'd go with the most rigid and stiffest option possible.

I am sure that you would.

[Seamaster]

I put that out there as I knew you could not resist gobbling it up!

I'd go with the most rigid and stiffest option possible.

I am sure that you would.

[Iago]

When presented with an obvoius setup like that, one is morally obligated to take advantage of it.

[PhotoOtaku]

I vote option 1.

I don't think you will see (feel) much difference in stiffness, ...but you will quickly find the car a pain to drive if you have issues with ground clearance.

Why would you need a drive shaft safety loop on the street, how much HP were you intending to make? I say let it break and become a projectile for others to avoid

[East]

I mainly wanted a safety loop because im going through the trouble of doing the floors. I have seen pictures of the shaft breaking loose and actually getting thrown through the floor instead of the useual pogo stick.

I am probably going to order a prebuilt 383 crate or see what a local engine builder can do for me when it comes time. I am looking for something that puts out about 425hp and 450 fp tq. That should be streetable and enough to keep a grin on my face.

I was originally considering going with a BBC either a 396 or a 400 but I like the idea of sticking with a sbc. (BBC wont clear with the stock hood, AC wont fit with a BBC, changing plugs is a pita now, Imagine with a bbc, hmm

I was originally considering the S&W because i wanted the car really stiff but Don't want to run a cage.

After reading around on tgo I think the way to go for a really stiff cageless car is get spohn (Outer) and mac performance (Inner) sfcs for it and run both.

Ill have to talk about my options with the guy that's going to do the floors and sfcs for me. I have been trying not to bug him too much. Hes not ready to do the floors yet and its probably just as well as I realized that my seat braces are probably going to need to be replaced as well (Since i get get the drivers side loose)

On the upside I have the replacement seat tracks I got ground down all the way to clean metal. I have to clean in the cracks a bit better then I am going to shoot them with paint. Ill get some pics of that up soon.

[Seamaster]

For what it is worth, I think that nothing compromises a performance car more than poor handling. And I assume you wouldn't be going to this effort if you did not want a car that performs. Unless, of course, you're wanting to maintain the spirit of old-school American muscle: fast in a straight line and that's about it.

I'd seriously consider adjustable shocks so that you can deal with ground clearance and also soften up the ride for around town, but dial it down for those times when you want to rip it up a bit. Such a solution has been used on Ferraris and Lambos. And that way you can explore your chassis options.

I assume you are planning to keep the engine naturally aspirited?

[East]

The engine is going to be carbed N/A. If i intended on making this car a straight line performer I would be talking about back halfing it about now. I will save all that if I ever do a strip ready IROC hard top.

I haven't thought much about suspension mods yet because the oil the 305 sweats ate the current suspension bushings so until its rebuilt or replaced I think the suspension would be a waste of money. That and the drivers side strut tower has to be replaced first (No worries I have a clean one in the basement already that was cut from a 92 teal v6 camaro that was rear ended quite badly)

Being a WS6 car I already have the quick ratio steering box. Ill reinforce it with a spohn wonder bar and probably get some koni or kyb struts. I am not sure about springs yet. I was going to go with eibach until I saw how high a TGO members car sits with there so called lowering springs.

[East]

Not directly related to the project but I found these awesome vintage 80's cassette tapes when I was cleaning out the basement.


I threw them aside (Into the huge box of T/A parts. If i keep the current radio (Out of my fathers 78' Caprice) I think that I am going to have to make some mix tapes if I can actually find something capable of recording cassettes. Its a decent idea especially considering if I do end up running moroso solid mounts a cd would never stop skipping

Well back on topic, I'm back to considering the S&W connectors. I did some research (Which consisted of looking at as many pictures as I could find of them installed) And I really do not think the ground clearence is as poor at it is made out to be with it installed.

I just wish they had a tube that ran parallel to the pinch weld. Which brings me to an idea, it would only take minor modifications to make the S&W setup work with the spohns the way I wish the S&W setup was made to begin with. Then I could stichweld the spohns along the pinchweld and have all of the additional connection points of the S&W, hmm... I like this idea.

Basically I would be cutting off the very end of the S&W's that meets the pinch weld and welding that end to the side of the spohns and cutting the LCA mounts off of the spohns and welding the whole thing to the underside of the car. The S&W ends would have to be notched to fit tightly against the spohns (The same way tubes in a roll cage would be notched where they meet.) (That would teach my mechanic not to bend up the pinchwelds )

The spohns would fit where the red lines are in the photo.

If setup that way I would have the best SFC setup I have ever seen on one of these cars.

I know I know all of you are probably thinking why is he so damn concerned about making the chassis ridged if he plans on it being a street car, Surely stock is adiquate? It is not, these cars are flimsy as hell from the factory. It is only something you truly understand if you have owned one or at minimum driven one. In addition to the better handling and alleviating stress cracks on body panels It also helps dramatically with t top rattles and dash squeaks. (From what others have claimed anyway, I have only had the privilege of experiencing it in rotted stock form thus far.)

I figure if I am going to build this thing I am going to plan it out well and do everything to a higher standard then I anticipate being needed so that I do not have any regrets/Have to redo stuff later on

[PhotoOtaku]

But if you created your hybrid design, you would be still using the original control arms in the rear...? I think in the first kit the joints on their tubular arms probably make the car track better in the curves than the OEM parts ever could.

I don't think these cars will ever be squeak and rattle free, I remember hearing them creak a few miles out of the showroom when you got on them, no joke.

[East]

But if you created your hybrid design, you would be still using the original control arms in the rear...? I think in the first kit the joints on their tubular arms probably make the car track better in the curves than the OEM parts ever could.

I don't think these cars will ever be squeak and rattle free, I remember hearing them creak a few miles out of the showroom when you got on them, no joke.

I wouldn't be relocating the lca's if thats what you mean, But when I rebuild the rear all the stock stuff back there is going bye bye. The S&W sfc assembly already ties into the LCA mounts. If I can tie the spohns in there as well that would be good but if not I would just remove the mounts from the spohns and weld that spot to the S&W sfc. I may be able to keep the spohn lca mount depending on how it fits provided I can find lca bolts that are long enough.

I am currently working on getting replacement seat brackets (the ones that weld to the floor that the seats bolt to) From a contact down south that's got a junkyard. It is really hard to find floor related stuff around here, It seems every car in the junk yard was a t top car and it rotted out worse then mine after some idiot bought the t tops out of it.

[Seamaster]

I don't think you're being silly at all concentrating on the chassis. As you mentioned, the chassis was a particular weak point for these cars. I think you're going the right route.

[East]

Its taking him longer then we both expected for him to finish the c3 hes currently doing so still no new floors but I am still enjoying it.



I took that earlier before it rained

That door sag is starting to get to me though. Before the car gets painted its getting 2 new doors and both quarters replaced anyway since the doors are rotted along the bottom edge and the quarters are rusted in spots around the wheel well. It looks really nice going by @ 55 on the highway at least.

[Iago]

Maybe if you go 75 on the highway it will look even nicer.

[East]

Ill try that after I get some working shocks and struts. It would be quite scary to travel at that speed riding on just the springs.

[Seamaster]

Imagine how good it will look going 100.

[Iago]

You need something other than springs to go over 75? I had friend in high school who drove faster than that without the springs! Mind you, they are all dead now . . .

[East]

I drove it for what seemed like an eternity today. I must have put another 150 miles on it today alone. Boy did that tire me out but maybe that was just the lack of air conditioning.

idc what you say that car is tough. Despite its condition id piratically drive it anywhere. It has never broken down on me. I did get stuck with it once but that was the fault of the crappy battery I put in there, not the cars.

I put the first brand new battery in that car has had in a while in recently. It is an optima yellow top battery. I went with optima after reading many reviews on TGO (They would know since a lot of the guys on there also store theirs for the winter) And asking a friend that uses optima. I spent the extra money for the yellow top because its a deep cycle battery. From what I have heard AGM batteries only loose 1-3% of there charge per month unused provided they are disconnected. It is a deep cycle battery meaning it is more tolerant of deep discharges, So in the very worst case I figure I will just have to charge it back up in the spring. I will probably get a float trickle charger for it anyway and keep it hooked up in the basement.

[Seamaster]

What? You're not going to drive that car year round? I can't imagine why . . .

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